A grave announcement from Mr. Forum Implementor

Some of you already got the news, but for those who didn't...

I -and a group of other people- might... just might be getting a chance at starting a videogame IP and creating a videogame or two. Big project with a lot of lore and plans behind it and I was called in for Creative Design process, starting by gathering the starting ideas for the lore and creating a setting and history for it.

The project is being pushed onwards by two people and is in need of investors, however to qualify for potential funding that is being offered we have to deliver some starting tidbits in a very short time, which means we have to get to work NOW. For me, that means helping create a solid setting and lore from pieces of info about potential 4 continents, 2 big wars, 12 races and several deities and pseudo-deities. Without much assistance. In a couple of weeks or so.

Since this whole qually thing is pro bono and I have to juggle with my normal work, I want to let you people know that I will be far less available than usual for the next two weeks and perhaps a bit more. Whenever I'm online I will be staying mostly in designdox room and or N-L + Cleanup when needed. I will still be IMable, just expect me to be a bit more monosyllabic.

Further details in designdox room logs for yesterday. And be seeing you later.

Wish me luck. >_>

Re Umbra's D!post about deaths and the recent situation

(I mean this D!post and discussion thereof)

(and thanks Bit for quoting)

As I already mentioned, I'd be counter to adding a blanket statement of "killing your characters is a always a very bad idea™", "don't kill your characters", etc. For one thing, such statements about the fate of characters carry a weight of their own - they stand very close to the narrative edge of what can be done with a characters.

That weight is of particular relevance in an RP like ours, even more with the recent events. Adding it right now might make it come up with a feel of it being aesopiful, soapboxing, and rubber-bandish in our development or something similar, at a time when we really, I'd like to think, don't want to be held hostage to the hindsight judgment of a person who leaves precisely because of discontent - and even more if it's Herbert again.

I'd agree that "character death should be used moderately and respectfully" could be added to the Essay, yes, but for different reasons than metadrama at least on my end.

Now, for a slight change of subject, yes, I'd be guessing that it won't be the case for Hoenn-2 to be "angsting over the loss of Herbert's characters", to quote a discussion on the subject. Acting like it's going to be can be harmful in particular if that's going to breed an attitude of "subject can't be brought in for seriousness EVER!". I can only mostly suggest that we let innard character plots be innard and outward ones be outward. If anyone has suspicions or feelings that those things are being mixed, then ask before complaining. Inner and outer conflicts interact narratively for a reason, and it has to happen if a character is to face, for example, a strong but planned turn in development.

All in all, I want to remind people that yes, this is an RP, we are supposed to be here for the fun. But we've outgrown about 95% of forum-style roleplays in the internet that have any sort of shared continuity. We are about a work now, too, and we have to be responsible with it. If there are creative conflicts, call people to the chalkboard instead of, say worst case scenario, pulling Joe Quesadas on other players and your audience.

(And of course, try having fun when working on the chalkboard)

Re Ethnicity

I'm not going to even bother with a link for the time being. The subject is fresh enough.

There's a lot that can be said about ethnicity and other "social variables" both from the perspective of the RP, of creative works in general, etc.

Some people seem to consider it not a variable to be even worth mentioning, yet I would say it falls within the same category as other cariables such as gender and sexual orientation that we do put a lot of focus on - and for the same reasons: meatspace representativity. Considering that gender (a variable that in the Pokémon franchise is about as distinctive as eye color for humans for practical purposes) merits a whole bullet item in the signups, that the objection comes in those terms feels to me as skirting the line between hypocrisy and negligence somehow.

At the same time, as has been pointed out by some people, in particular Zeal, in various ways, there's not much that one can do with ethnicity from a narrative standpoint when a character "starts". It's not like other variables like social class that can have a more discrete impact on how a character gets into the RP and into things, and, I guess, is instead a thing that is grown outto as the seasons flow. So requiring or putting normative emphasis on ethnicity is not a good play either - some people would say it is even "non-inviting".

Of note, the entire point of why this subject has been brought to light is to fight a trend towards a default, one that shouldn't be so and that does cause issues (as it has been the case that some... unfortunate comments on it and related subjects have popped in the chatrooms). A good proposal should by necessity tackle the core issue: we shouldn't promote "default to white".

(Then comes Rule of Tagg. We shouldn't promote "default", period)

I'm guessing Wolf's proposal is nearly good enough but I'd rather like to see it fixed so that it doesn't promote the idea that the section is skipable. Ditching the parentheses might help - parentheses do mean "this is skipable" anywhere except in math! Putting the various facets of appearance a bit more in line with stuff like gender would, probably, help with things as well. And hey, sure some people just "don't" have an ethnicity, in the sense that it's not defined yet - but explicit is better than implicit, so if we want to avoid default to $WHATEVER then it's better if people do state that they haven't thought of the subject or don't plan to tackle it yet. Just like we'd do with any other variable such as a mon's nickname, really.

On New Years

Happy New Year, ∀mon. Remember to make your votes for goals you won't accomplish this 2015! :3

On plot ideas

by chaoticmarin

* MMZero plot idea: Now this is something I like. I had a plan for a small MegaManZero media subarc during the Orange Islands but it didn't really go anywhere beyond the introductory posts for various bosses and characters. I could send you some details on the mons I used and the overall idea if you're interested.

I think either the first game or the first and second work well enough as a unit, though I'm more partial to using the first game only because it's easier to work the "levels" that way. The idea of it being Pokémon vs Humans is... not really something I'm too keen on, since a very good and open point that the MMZ games make is that the us v/s them conflict has "them" already nearly literally in the position of garbage (as in, being compacted and used as such). Then again there's no really other alternative I can come up with.

Question: how would Cyber Elves or their equivalent work? I was thinking we could use other mons in the Trainer's team using O-Powers as a sort of alternative. It kinda jibes well with the slightly more "powers as programs" perspective that MMZ takes as a whole.

As for Pikachu as Copy X... That'd imply there's another, "original", Pikachu who is heroic. And the canon already bored me enough of that. Then again that Original Pikachu would be most likely become a Raichu long ago and retired, and sitting awesomely on a Thunder Throne. So hmmm... feeling strangely undecided on this one.

* The other plot ideas:

Dunno what much to think of them. Admittedly I greatly disliked ZX, and I don't know much of Skyward Sword except the obvious things and whatever appears as Lore in Hyrule Hystoria. But I can say one thing - we could take a page from FFVI or FFXIV for the floating islands part and have them be places temporarily expelled from the ground thanks to the ${Name a Legendary}'s TREMENDOUS POWER. And be used less as towns and more as kinda dungeons. (Also because for "airborne HQ towns" we'd already have I lost count of how many airships in the RP).

Pokéforms in census

I'd say Diane counts (is born / created as a Staraptor), the others IMO wouldn't. "Spends a good amount of time as" is not a good criterion of what a Pokémon or another creature *is*, which is what the census is about. (Of note, it's not even necessarily the same as a Shapeshifter's Default Form)

[Choreography]

aka this post.

I'd say [Choreography] could go in, yes, why not, with similar mechancs to Round except being physical. Agree that it would be effected by abilities that work on "movement" moves.

Mixin in power boosts with Round though I think not. One is based around dancing and stuff, the other is based around singing. It'd make ~200% more sense to mixin some sort of boost with Close Combat than with Round (or for that matter, say, Hyper Voice / Supersonic).

On Mon Census

On the one paw, census are about past-time. I've never seen any census that counts future people to be potentially born (be it wanted or unwanted children). Mons "planned to appear" is not a guarantee that they will count.

On the other paw, census take some damn time. Mons that are at least past the stage of "planned to appear" (eg.: have character sheets or have had some sort of foreshadowing -- basically, "proof of offscreen existence") are usually very likely to do appear within the timeframe the census runs.

Dunno what the others think, but I'd say considering that a mon census is going to take us a while, if the mon in question is well planned to appear Soon™ (ie.: within a timeframe of up to three, perhaps four weeks?) then why not.

On the subject of past, what do we do with the mons of retired characters? Tracer's or Luke's for example. It's not like they are actuarially dead...

Re Essay

Namely the proposal for an essay by Umbramatic.

I'm in complete support that such an essay should not be kept a secret. Perhaps an open secret, why not, in the sense that we should be able to work on the kinks as the thing is about to get solidified.

Now, what can be said about the Tone and Conduct of Tone in the RP? Probably not much besides what has been already said. I'm not sure if these two things are the same or strongly related enough, but then again that's a good reason to have an Essay about it.

But if it is to be an Essay about what the RP is about (which I am pretty clear it _is_ a different thing than what the Tone or Conduct can be) then I do have some inputs I have already given in N-L and some other times. However except for the following major point I will wait until working on that essay is opened up (maybe over the wiki?) to put down all my input on the matter on a single place rather than spread over the history of the RP.

As for my point...

Yes this should be a Pokémon RP. Not just "an RP about whatever but with Pokémon in it". And not "an RP exclusively about Pokémon" either. Just (more or less) a Pokémon RP. I prefer to think of WAAPT as specifically a Pokémon RP with vast foreign influences rather than any sort of "strict" Pokémon RP.

If there is stuff about tone as in "how to write", there are some things I will want to comment with regards to drama, lack of it, craziness and continuity. But, again, I will wait until I see which of those considerations would apply.

So, here I am with a small plot / side arc proposal. Depending on how acceptance goes and what changes are made to the idea, I will make a primer out of it.

What is the big idea, then? Simple.

Hoenn Sands 2.0: A Nightmare Neonate

(aka: The Ashcloud Returns)

Basically, it's been too long since I last did something with the Magical Evil Ashcloud (you remember that one, right?) and it's about time -and place!- for it to make its return. After wandering across the world for very long, now makes a comeback to pursue its goals, chief among them making Copahue suffer. World domination too, but first things first.

To that end, the Ashcloud steals some powerful things from Jemma (you do remember her, nya~?) and makes use of its powers to root itself in the Super Mario 64-esque area in the Mirage Tower (you do remember that one too, right?), then works from there to create its own dimension of... let's say, Ashness, defended by her own Legion of Doom Ashness, who work to seize control of a given number of mystic places in the world so that the Ashcloud can fetch enough power from them to complete its goals. The members of the Legion of Ashness will create camps or battlegrounds that link from the Dimension of Ashness to the Pokémon World, and those camps must be cleared before the Ashcloud can exert its influence over them.

Quick playstyle brief

The side arc will play more or less like a mission or campaign in a FF-esque game. Players pick up a team or squad of their mons, and raid a given settlement that the enemies are using in order to clear it from the Ashcloud's influence by fighting each settlement's Boss or completing each settlement's Quest. Character teams will be guided through the first part of the plot by Jemma, who, irked that someone else her is using her tools for world domination, has decided to reel in the characters as her followers to do her bidding.

Once all settlements are cleared, a path opens to reach the final opponents as the Ashcloud makes its move. There might or might not be a Bonus Boss for bragging rights reward, depending on availability.

Players will be able to opt in and out of the arc so that their characters are able to take part in other things going on, but for ease of management there will be plot-important sections of the story where characters will not be able to get out (or get in, for the matter), so take notice.

There will be a couple of NPCs involved, Jemma and Copahue the most relevant, but I plan for a couple of surprises, and of course players are welcome to being their NPCs in to be involved with the story within capacity, too!

Quickie Questions

* When?

Ideally starting in May and working at comfortable pace for as long as it's needed, though ideally no later than the leads to the finale of whatever arc comes after Hoenn-2.

* Why?

Because the Ashcloud is eeeeeevil.

* How many players? What do I need?

I envision the side arc as for about two, three players tops with teams of three or four. I may be able to relax requirements depending on assistance to the GMing.

There are a few requirements to participate in this side arc. On the managerial side, there's the ability to post in this forum (if you are a WAAPT member you should have this already, so if you don't, ask!). On the in-character side, character teams going in need at least one Dream World mon, or at least one mon who has been Awakened to the Dream World before, plus a means of transportation for long distances (cross-region range), such as a vehicle or long-range teleportation.

* What do I get for participating?

I want to offer some prizes to the players who clear up the challenges, kinda like what was done with the Auric Sol Tournament (you do remember those, right?), but that will depend on how much of the arc can be implemented and if / how will the prizes be approved. If they're not, well then there's my thanks, and of course the feeling that you participated in an arc, like you have in others before. Yay!

Questions? Answers? According to how things go I should be able to provide more answers and eventually publish a primer.

On Psyche's powerset

(URL: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?di … 1024#25592 )

As per my style goes, I'm going to be comparing those powers to how would they replace a Pokémon, at least where it makes sense to run the comparison.

The first things that come to mind is that despite being "from 1 to 10", the scales for those powers are not defined at all.  And having proper boundaries between power levels is key to build up anything that behaves like psychic powers - what can be affected, what can't, why, when, how much it is a factor of inertia versus force, etc. For example, what does a "7-8" in Telepathy mean? Given the field is already split between Passive, Active and Coercive.

Can Psyche read a person's thoughts across a city? A continent? From Pokéarth to Pokémoon? What if the person is distracted or heavily injured? Does the information come to her perfectly interpreted, or does it come in raw fashion tinted with the experiences and tastes of the other person?  Do those people know they are being violated this way? What about any of the above but with "write"? (Coercive Telepathy, to which I'll get later)

Of note, even if as pointed in the chatroom a level of telepathy of 10 ("Might as well know everything anyone thinks about") was limited to the range of about earshot (which is still defined to be in the tens of meters), that makes Psyche an inherently uncomfortable (not to mention dangerous) person to be around.

Re Passive and Active Telepathy: we don't have any evidence psychic powers held by Pokémon in any of the canons normally stretch anywhere near the degree of invasiveness and pervasiveness that "might as well know everything anyone thinks about" suggests, made more relevant by this:

At least as far as I know, not even Mewtwo engaged in active telepathy of that level - though he did worse things, so, I take it with two grains of salt.

(There is also the consideration that the Pokémon that could read a person's mind whole don't really have the means or the intention to communicate back on what they are reading, that Mismagius in the Sinnoh season of the anime being the only counterexample I can remember)

As for Coercive Telepathy... ooooh boy... honestly, if using the above scale and she was able to use this skill in about the same terms, that makes her about as dangerous as the weird telepath experiment in the X-Men movies that managed to break Charles Xavier in a couple of hours - and at least Xavier had the power to fight back. Most human characters in the RP flat out won't, and will depend of outside context to protect themselves from her. Of which there is no guarantee either because we don't know how her psychic powers effect Pokémon.

A coercive capacity of "7", whatever that would scale to, would suggest so far that people who know about her and know they are going to end up meeting with her would (should) expect to protect their psyches somehow, or flat out if that is not well feasible prepare to shoot to kill. After all, with that powerset (and all the other Psychic-related things she has), meeting her can very well be the Death of the Self. And deaths (of any kinds of selves, really) should ideally be being dealt by Pokémon, not by humans.

Regarding a comparison with Pokémon here, I don't think there is much ground to compare to. There's Mewtwo who was engaged in world domination and the replacement and extermination of whole species, but the problem is the only clear cut case of telepathic coercion in that movie was limited to one person and dealt no discernible damage (that lasted long enough to be seen onscreen). Sure, he made everyone forget everything that happened afterwards, but unless you're willing to adscribe to him hypnotizing the entire world into not realizing they had lost a day, the only viable alternative is false mass memories that are also provable, which.... brings on its own set of issues.

So yeah.

Telepathy-wise, paint me concerned.

Re: Hybrids

aka this D!post

In the RP, it is true that "hybrids" have been a thing, however they have been of particular circumstances. Mention should go to Limna [wiki] (who is more properly speaking a chimera) and to a certain Purrloinsparce, who is more or less not exactly a thing. I'm not sure exactly of what other mons would constitute specific cases or why, so if someone else can help me there...

Depending on what is desired of the character though, alternatives to a hybrid (depending on the meaning) might be available, such as Delta mons if what is desired is alternate typing.

So, maybe if we can get more clarification on what you mean with hybrid, in what context, and why, it could be better.

re Umbra's plans

(this post)

1.- thanks.

2.- My availability in general goes as follows:

Tuesdays and Thursdays starting at 21:00 UTC up until about 03:00 UTC. Overall limited by life, family and that kind of stuff, and subjected to latency.

Weekends: in general I am available for as long as I am online. Once again, barring stuff such as life and family, but those take lower priority and are easier to work around on weekends than outside of them.

I can, for the most part, accommodate pretty well about schedules to follow, spaghettiposting and that kind of stuff. All provided that it doesn't result in me staying up too late at night, since one thing I *should* be doing is fixing my sleep schedule.

Welcome Aboard, Smirnov

Yeah... pretty much that. Your username's surname is awesome, btw.

Regarding your question on Pokémon and human relationships: as has been said, that's pretty much what is seen in the anime. And it's a good example of a thing to go by. In general, that kind of close relationship of comraderie is what ends up developing for most characters and their Pokémon in the RP.

re DarkerShining's D!post

1.- I'm... not sure what shows "aimed at little girls" are like, but I'm gonna suggest something like Mighty Marshmallow Chicks (as a shout out to something like Powerpuff Girls).

2.- and 3.- Nothing new to say that hasn't been said already.

In other news

Did anyone manage to take good pictures of the Large Red Moon Eclipse of about a week or so ago? In my area the event was not visible due to aaaaargh weather. I would love to have good images of it, besides what usually appears on the internet.

re Tagg

Give pics? :3

re Pokésona

I think at this point since there is already development going on and the arc requires specific rules, a Primer should be lifted. In agreement with Keys I have already prepared the corresponding wiki page.

re Pokephilia

It' should merit mention that most communities' rules (of convivence or otherwise) disallow that kind of stuff anyway, and we are not different in what regards to such subjects. So yeah, a mention that it's a community rule would be proper. However I don't think the Essay is the place for it, though can't think of a better place except for the WAAPT Faq (and there it would be... weird).